Re: Cox Super Power Fuel

JPvelo Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:56 am

My report:

I ran the fuel in bladder pressure reed valve, KB crank, new cox international Tee Dee cylinder.

The only problem I had was of my own making. Bladder reedies can be difficult to needle, running a brand new cylinder only exacerbated this. I had about four over lean runs that seized the engine in flight. Again, my fault not the fuels. This resulted in some excessive wear on the top if the piston.
Once it got broken in and I found the correct needle setting the fuel performed flawlessly. Easy starts hot or cold and steady runs with no burps. I was running a 4.75x3 prop and launching at 20,000 rpm so flight was probably 21.5-22,000 rpm and I found no wear other than the aforementioned incident that was MY FAULT, NOT THE FUELS.
I will be buying this fuel when it comes out and can heartily recommend it. It would be nice if it was offered in a 35% option. Maybe resurrect the old "cox racing fuel" label for 35%?
Also, a quick note on the Cox Internationl Tee Dee cylinder. It's a screamer, best $14 you can spend on your engine.

Dave, thanks for the opportunity to participate in the R&D. I had fun and it was refreshing to see a company that listens and responds to the needs of its customers.

Jim

**RknRusty** Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:53 am

Ron and I are running it at my house. So far the engine runs have been very smooth and fast. We'll light off as much as we can this evening. I'll let him submit the official report since he's the designated tester.
Rusty

JPvelo Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:10 am

RknRusty wrote:Ron and I are running it at my house. So far the engine runs have been very smooth and fast. We'll light off as much as we can this evening. I'll let him submit the official report since he's the designated tester.
Rusty

Will it turn the prop with enough authority to cut down an oak tree? lol!

**Cribbs74** Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:21 am

We will check that tonight.

**Cribbs74** Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:05 am

Ok,

It's my opinion (and Rusty's) that this fuel is good stuff. We put a large quantity of the test fuel through that new product engine. We peaked it without break in and just ran that sucker straight for 40 mins. We tached it throughout the run and it actually gained close to 2K rpm from the beginning to the end.

We used a cut down prop to really wind that puppy up. Hot compression was better than cold compression when it was all said and done. In addition the exhaust residue ran clear the entire time with no aluminum specks whatsoever.

The smell of the spent fuel was very reminicent of SIG.

Kim Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:17 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Ok,

It's my opinion (and Rusty's) that this fuel is good stuff. We put a large quantity of the test fuel through that new product engine. We peaked it without break in and just ran that sucker straight for 40 mins. We tached it throughout the run and it actually gained close to 2K rpm from the beginning to the end.

We used a cut down prop to really wind that puppy up. Hot compression was better than cold compression when it was all said and done. In addition the exhaust residue ran clear the entire time with no aluminum specks whatsoever.

The smell of the spent fuel was very reminicent of SIG.

Alright! GREATLY appreciate you guys' work ! Maybe Dave can now get this stuff stickered and out the door !!!

**Cribbs74** Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:31 pm

Thanks Kim,

I had all sorts of plans for this test fuel, but Uncle Sam had different ideas for me.

Anyway I will tear the engine down and take a look inside and provide pictures. We were not gentle with this engine whatsoever. We also plan on using the rest of the fuel in flight.

Ron

pkrankow Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:08 pm

Awesome! I like how SIG champion smells compared to the stuff the local place sells.

Phil

**RknRusty** Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:37 pm

I'm not an appointed tester, but I'll go out on a limb here... ahem... as an assistant to a tester, and declare the new beta test formula of Cox Super Power Fuel, which was shipped out for testing in October 2014, and used by said testers for the purpose of determining its suitability for use in all Cox model engines of the type designed by L.M.Cox Manufacturing, and also in any combination of interchangeable parts of those engines that would constitute hybrid versions resembling those same engines, to be of high quality and suitable in every way we were capable of observing with only our hobbyist level resources.

In other words, it looks like the right stuff to me. I'll use it in Cox, Norvel engines and my other 1/2A engines. I'll buy it in quarts if the price and shipping is reasonably competitive. It would be nice to have 35% nitro available with the same type oil blend for high performance pressure fed engines too.

Thanks Dave for listening to our needs and making this effort to supply us with a good new product. It's great to know customer service is alive and well.
Rusty

Mark Boesen Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:34 pm

When I first heard of the change, I was happy to see and impressed that the issue of low caster content was being address, but I was puzzled that given the opportunity to re-introduce Cox fuel, that they didn't take advantage of using the old formula?

I quickly fired off a email to one of the most highly regard 1/2a racers in North America, to which he replied that the 50/50 oil content was probably better then the 90/10 oil content for reducing varnish on pistons, the most common RPM killer in small engines. I'm looking forward to using this stuff.

**RknRusty** Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:43 am

Mark Boesen wrote:When I first heard of the change, I was happy to see and impressed that the issue of low caster content was being address, but I was puzzled that given the opportunity to re-introduce Cox fuel, that they didn't take advantage of using the old formula?

I quickly fired off a email to one of the most highly regard 1/2a racers in North America, to which he replied that the 50/50 oil content was probably better then the 90/10 oil content for reducing varnish on pistons, the most common RPM killer in small engines. I'm looking forward to using this stuff.

Maybe the 90/10 washes the engine parts too clean, where as the 50/50 allows a beneficial balance of varnish for the little ringless engines to maintain good compression without overloading it like 100% castor can. Mark, are we thinking about the same effects?
Rusty

crankbndr Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:34 am

Interesting that you gained 2K RPM during the 40 min. run. Maybe the engine loosened up a bit during the run?

Mark Boesen Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:58 am

RknRusty wrote:
Mark Boesen wrote:When I first heard of the change, I was happy to see and impressed that the issue of low caster content was being address, but I was puzzled that given the opportunity to re-introduce Cox fuel, that they didn't take advantage of using the old formula?

I quickly fired off a email to one of the most highly regard 1/2a racers in North America, to which he replied that the 50/50 oil content was probably better then the 90/10 oil content for reducing varnish on pistons, the most common RPM killer in small engines. I'm looking forward to using this stuff.

Maybe the 90/10 washes the engine parts too clean, where as the 50/50 allows a beneficial balance of varnish for the little ringless engines to maintain good compression without overloading it like 100% castor can. Mark, are we thinking about the same effects?
Rusty

Hey Bud, sorry I should of clarified, the old Cox formula (not Hobbico) was 90/10 caster to synthetic. As you know these engines need castor, but too much can quickly add to varnish.

getback Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:06 pm

I THINK 10% synth. 20% castor 70% nitro would make a 100% blend ??????? Eric Very Happy

Just like every thing in the past was Good but ; was the past and cant get it back !

**RknRusty** Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:22 pm

getback wrote:I THINK 10% synth. 20% castor 70% nitro would make a 100% blend ??????? Eric Just like every thing in the past was Good but ; was the past and cant get it back !

Not quite, you're missing the most important ingredient for sustained glow engine combustion. Methanol. Not that your stuff wouldn't make a helluvan explosion, but methanol is the catalyst that makes the platinum glow element keep glowing after you remove the battery.
Rusty

GallopingGhostler Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:17 pm

Methanol is not only the catalistic element but also the combustion element. drunken

**Cribbs74** Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:22 pm

I think Eric was just kidding.

**RknRusty** Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:33 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:I think Eric was just kidding.

I can't always tell.
I should've known. The dude is an IC engine guy.

roddie Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:43 pm

What I'm getting from this conversation is; that the original (LM) Cox fuel blend had 40% more castor than say; the Sig 1/2A Champion fuels.. or the Hobbico "beta" blend?

tru168 Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:02 pm

A little off topic , I have problem finding suitable fuel for Cox engines previously, and I ran one of my old cox product engine using 20% castor and 80% methanol and it perform well, easy needle, 13,500rpm on MA 6X3 and use it for years, it still perform well. but only a few of my old Cox engine can run 0% , most of my Cox engines can't do well without nitro.
My Cox sure start with 25% nitro fuel turns 13,000rpm using the same 6X3 prop. Thats why I love my old product engines very much!
I've heard Cox Texaco can run very low nitro, and even some of them used fuel without castor.

**Cribbs74** Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:20 pm

Does anyone in Malaysia Drag race? As in top fuel? That is where I would be hanging out if I were you.

pkrankow Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:50 pm

By upping the oil slightly to 25% the ability to needle a no nitro engine is improved. I never tached the times I ran this blend, but it flew my lil Wizard just fine with an old product engine on it.

In all likelihood 1 gasket shim is all that is required.

Phil

**Cribbs74** Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:03 pm

Good to know Phil. That bit of info should be stickied.

**RknRusty** Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:04 pm

roddie wrote:What I'm getting from this conversation is; that the original (LM) Cox fuel blend had 40% more castor than say; the Sig 1/2A Champion fuels.. or the Hobbico "beta" blend?

The fuels manufactured by Cox came in two blends.
The Flight Power Fuel in the blue can was 15% nitro, 18% castor and 2% synthetic Dow lube XA-1180-6
The Race Power fuel in the red can was 30% nitro, 18% Castor and 2% synthetic Dow lube XA-1180-6
The balance of both was of course methanol.

Mark Boesen Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:55 pm

These three formulas are from the seventies, I'm not sure what the Thimble-Drome fuel from the 50's-60's was?

test stands - Cox Super Power Fuel - Page 5 Glo_po11

test stands - Cox Super Power Fuel - Page 5 Flight10

test stands - Cox Super Power Fuel - Page 5 Race_p11

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