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RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

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RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:17 pm

Darn, darn, and darn. The seller attempted to separate the wing from the fuselage and in the process broke the front tab that holds the wing on. At best these are difficult to separate, at worst, impossible.



I knew the minute I saw the shipping box that it had to be disassembled. Long and tall rather than flat and wide. To bad, in it's present condition it is neither collectable or flyable. Also it's the desirable pilot ejector model. Pilot sits on a spring and is released through the control handle.





Seller refunded my money, but I'm looking for an additional sixteen bucks to mail it back to him. I also gave him the option of refunding just half of my payment and I keep the model.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  getback on Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:44 am

Man I hate that , that is a nice looking model too at least the seller is working with you //// I just got a some stuff from a guy that sold me a wasp with a separated piston in it , some parts and a fox 15 CL 14.00 funny how I still spent more money though Sad
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:03 am

getback wrote:Man I hate that , that is a nice looking model too at least the seller is working with you //// I just got a some stuff from a guy that sold me a wasp with a separated piston in it , some parts and a fox 15 CL 14.00 funny how I still spent more money though Sad

Thanks Eric, Sometimes things just don't go our way, but we just keep on buying stuff.

Most of the sellers are quite honest in their shipping and descriptions. But in this case whoever removed that wing heard the unmistakable sound of plastic breaking and shipped it anyway.

I still haven't heard from him regarding my 1/2 off offer or a return shipping address. I would like to keep it, I think I can fix it and the ejectionable pilot is unique.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:50 pm

Well, I'm impressed. Reinforced my mostly positive opinion of human nature. The seller said just keep it for parts after refunding my full purchase price ($72.34) plus shipping. I thanked him and renewed my offer of refunding 1/2 the purchase price but I don't think that he will accept.

I think I can repair it but suggestions on how to go about it would be appreciated. Somehow I have to glue the tab back on while I have the wing on the fuselage, then reinforce it somehow. Any repair would be covered by the belly pan. It will have to be strong enough to support flight.

I would like to try out that - eject the pilot feature. Flying
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  dckrsn on Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:41 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
I would like to try out that - eject the pilot feature. Flying

Glad everything worked out for the better.
The eject deal sounds cool.
Bob
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:00 am

dckrsn wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:
I would like to try out that - eject the pilot feature. Flying

Glad everything worked out for the better.
The eject deal sounds cool.
Bob

I like that picture Bob, I wonder if it's the original Martin-Baker seat.

There must be a latch on the front of the D/F's canopy, there is an opening for it. The seat is fired by a pinch mechanism shown in the bottom picture that is connected to the bell crank. I would think you give the lines full up and magic happens. I better paint the pilot glow orange or I will never find it. Smile Smile
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  Kim on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:42 am

Congrats on the deal! It IS cool to know there are STILL some square-up dudes to be encountered.

Got to say I'm really liking all this attention aimed at these old Cobras. Figure we're gonna have a fun summer here with lots of hollow log and ancient plastic traffic!!!!!!
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:36 am

Yes, this one is interesting.  It isn't the olive drab clear through mixture of the P-39, or the "chromed" surface application of the P-63, but instead it's just unadulterated raw vanilla plastic from the mold.

I looked up RAF Day Fighter and I can't find any reference to the P-39/63 used as such,  just the standard Hurricanes and Spitfires.  I know that Russia used the dickens out of these, but not so much the Brits.  Maybe Wen Mac just dreamed it up and slapped on the appropriate decals.  I still can't figure the red gum ball on the turtle deck.  



I intend on doing little to it other than fixing the tab on the wing.  I will have to loosen the front retaining screw to lift the engine cover enough to remove it and clean the engine but that's about all I have planned.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:26 pm

I've got a "redneck" solution to mounting your wing. Drill two small holes in the forward-center of the wing (maybe an inch apart.. span-wise).. and loop a twist-tie through an appropriate support above; inside the fuse.. out through the two holes in the wing and twist tight to secure. It might even save the wing in a crash. The wing will still locate/lock in its saddle.. correct? I would say; just drill a hole in a bulkhead for the twisty.. but I don't see one. You get the principle though.. right? With the belly-pan on.. you'd never see it.. but I don't know if it'd interfere with the pilot-ejection mechanism.. Huh...

The front-tab on the belly-pan could be bridged by a tab/support fastened in the retract-bay possibly? Maybe try using some spring-steel banding.. like used to secure shipping-pallets. Cut a small oval "tab" to fit, using shears.. and bend it upward to bear on the belly-pan. Attach to fuse maybe using sm. screws. Huh...



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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:27 pm

I used to make my own parachutes for model rockets. You could make one for the little ejecting "Royal Dude" using a plastic shopping-bag for the chute.. and a small lunch-plate as a template. Cut out the round chute w/sharp razor-knife.. then; evenly space some stick-on stationery reinforcements for threading/attaching approx. 4 to 6 shroud-lines.. which should be about 12"L./ea. after tying. Fold the chute in half and again until compact.. and all lines are suspended. Attach lines to "Royal Dude" (around his neck?) and stuff the folded chute behind him when you close the canopy. If he doesn't choke to death first..  his chute could get caught it the canopy upon ejection and he'll surely be killed instantly.. but at least you'll be able to recover his body. Laughing
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:00 pm

That might work roddie, four small holes some steel wire carefully wound tight may pull the two half's together and with a couple of snips would still be able to separate the two later for cleaning.

There is a cavity behind the pilot that could be used to stow the chute. There is an opening at the front of the canopy that a latch reaches through to release the canopy and the pilot at the same time, but the latch is broken off. I will have to fashion one out of plastic and glue it on.

The canopy is designed to fly-off as the pilot is ejected. The hinges on the back are not fixed to the fuselage like the other P-39/63's
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:28 pm

It's hard for me to tell from the photos.. but another look has me wondering if the mechanism (slide-lever?) to cock the ejection spring is located in the front retract bay? Do you push the pilot down to compress the spring and slide the lever on the bottom forward? Does the pilot have a rounded pin protruding from his bottom? This would make sense.. because of the radius on the latch slot. The pilot's pin pushes the spring down below the latch so that the latch-door can be closed. The pin would "ride-up" slightly when the latch-door closes.. and the spring would be held captive below the latch. You could try "test-cocking" the latch using a small marble or wooden ball. Then you can test the release mechanism.. which you feel might be "full-up" elevator?

Back to the wing mount.. can you drill two holes in the cockpit floor where the pilots feet go.. so as to clear the ejection-seat latch? That would be a good spot to drop a tie-wire loop down through holes drilled in the wing directly below. It might be a good idea to make a thin (1/16") plywood spreader-plate with matching holes, to keep from cracking the brittle plastic wing when you twist the wire tight. You can always paint it to match.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:32 pm


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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  getback on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:10 am

I am glad to hear all worked out good with the deal Bob and sounds like Roddie has you on your way to a fix i pursume you are going to fly that baby !! Gosh i think Mark has pics of about every plane cox and wen-mac put out so there was a white one , maybe the red marble is a flashing light that goes off when ejection happens to let the flyers behine him know hes getting the heck out before the crash /!/? We are thankful Mark . Shamrock
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:58 am

Well, there are two significant problems with this model. First is the wing to fuselage fix, second is the pilot ejection feature.

I think I have a pretty simple fix for the wing. If I make a wedge out of balsa that would be level with the fuselage/wing interface and glue a tab on top made from bass wood or styrene that would substitute for the original broken tab, and add a reinforcement on top of the wing and use a couple of screws to affix the assembly, I think that would work. But I'm open to other fixes.



Anyway the catch/release mechanism is quite interesting:











After looking at the "pilot", I think that he might have lost his butt in a card game as I think the back half is missing. There is nothing there to push down on the spring and lock the pilot in place. I have no idea as to how to fix that other than a balsa insert carved to match.





I could be wrong about the pilot, but he just doesn't sit back far enough to operate that spring/plunger affair.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  roddie on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:57 am

Yea Bob.. it sure looks that way with the pilot. I hadn't thought of him having a notched-pin and locking-down in place. That certainly makes more sense. You could build him his missing "seat" out of 1/16" plywood.. and fashion the lock-pin out of a 1/4" (or suitable diameter larger than the spring..) hardwood dowel with a slot cut across it. Maybe install a "sleeve" on the bottom of the dowel-pin for the spring to fit into.. (so it doesn't pop-off when cocking) Drill a hole for the dowel in the bottom of the seat and glue it in flush. Epoxy the pilot to his new seat.. and he'll lock in place again. Paint the seat flat-white.. and you're good to go.

Here's a "way out there" Roddie idea.. Rolling Eyes  I like that red beacon on the turtle-deck.. It wouldn't be hard to install a single flashing LED inside. Power it with a button-cell and install a micro-slide switch. Inside the cockpit behind the pilot's seat would be another cool place to light-up. LED's don't get hot.. weigh next to nothing.. draw very little current, have a long service life and are not as sensitive to vibration as bulb with a filament. You could display the lighted model out on a table/shelf for when you're having visitors.. or fly it as an RAF "Night Fighter"!
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:27 pm

...rectum hell, it killed him!

lol, sorry Embarassed


but, seriously folks...i do like Roddies ideas.
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  dckrsn on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:21 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:...rectum hell, it killed him!
Johnny!!! Mad

Bob
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:15 am

That P-63 Aircobra is a rarity indeed, amazing what the manufacturers did back then to attract children to want this airplane. I remember as a child gazing at the Sears, Montgomery Ward, J.C. Penney Christmas catalog, ads in AHC magazine ads entertained for hours looking at those photos of the numerous RTF planes available then. That later morphed to gazing at the Hobby Shack, Tower Hobbies and Hobby Lobby magazines and sales flyers as an adult.  Very Happy

I'm amazed at your find, rsv1cox, and hope you get those issues resolved. It would be wonderful to see the old bird fly again and bailing the pilot out Cool without the plane crashing of course.  Shocked

Where did the folded and rolled up parachute go? Behind the pilot perhaps? Then that would explain the hollowness of the pilot.

Might there have been a plastic button or platform of some sort attached to the top of the spring, that one pushed on to lock and load the spring in place and provided the support platform to kick the pilot out?
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  roddie on Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:22 am

an ejection seat.. Huh...  that's doable too.. I made this pedestal in a few minutes as an example of what might work.



A small hardwood spool with the pointed-end of a bamboo skewer stuck in. The ridge on the spool may be suitable enough as it is, to engage the latch. The bamboo pin fits inside the spring-coil. If this successfully "fires-out" of the cockpit on testing.. you could then trim the top off the spool.. and fashion a thin plywood seat.

You could opt to make the seat "captive".. by gluing the pin inside the spring coil. Build the seat with side-bolsters to keep the pilot in position.

How much "headroom" is there between the canopy? Gotta' keep that in mind too. I wonder if two small tabs of white hook & loop would suffice for securing the front of the canopy? A tiny dot would be enough to hold it closed.. but would separate easily with the force of an ejection. Huh...
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  OVERLORD on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:10 pm

Is this picture of any help?



I found it on RCG

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384691&page=6

And this picture on EBay



There is some kind of a seat!
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:35 pm

Thanks, Yes. I printed them out. You have a better search engine sitting on your shoulders than I do.

Thanks again - Bob
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  Mark Boesen on Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:31 pm

I got an Estes rocket parachute thats about the same size if you want, lmk
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:34 am

Thanks for the pointers guys, all good stuff.

Yup, I had thought about lighting that red beacon with a led on at least one of these four P-39/63's.  Yup, I could use that parachute Mark, and roddie & GG there is some room in the cockpit for a seat and that chute.  I can't tell for sure from the diagrams and  these pictures if that pilot is complete or not.  It seems that the pilot sits higher in these photos than in mine.  There may be something missing under the pilot.  

Testors example here, but the box on mine is labeled Wen Mac.





But notice there is a latch on the canopy itself which is broken off on mine rather than on the actuating arm which may be a bit more difficult to fabricate.

Thanks for those links

Everything is on hold for now though as my flying buddy son has arrived from Denver (remember smashed 1965 Mustangs).  He's presently charging R/C batteries and scoping out flying circles.


Last edited by rsv1cox on Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: RAF Day Fighter arrives.......Broken!!

Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:02 pm

AFAIK, Testors bought Wen Mac. I think for a time that Wen Mac products were sold under the Testors umbrella.

After looking at tht later photo, it does look like your pilot is incomplete without the back half. It appears that the parachute was laid on the shelf behind the pilot. I don't know where you'd find a pilot that could substitute for the incomplete one.

It would be interesting to build a balsa plane that kicked the pilot out in a similar manner. I guess a simple way would be to fly inverted and the pilot falls out with parachute.
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