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Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

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Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  NEW222 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:19 pm

Hi all yet again. So I stopped by my LHS today to replenish my fuel for my Cox engines. Last place I knew that sold Sig Champion 25%. So I walk in and to my surprise they no longer sell Sig fuel. So the owner knows me and that I was running Cox engines and sells me this Morgan Racing fuel:

Sidewinder Pro 20% Castor & Synthetic Blend
20% nitro
10% castor.

He told me this is now what the locals are using to run their Cox and Norvel engines. Is there anyone else here who uses it or knows if it is any good? This was the best I could find. They had 30% in a gallon jug, but that is just too much for me to use up in any decent time before going bad. So if anyone has anything good or bad to tell me, please let me know before I run this in my engines. Thank you.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:30 pm

While not familiar with the fuel, I can't see you haveing any problems with a 20% blend with 10% castor. This is the same blend they now use in the new Cox Super Power fuel which has been extensively tested by members here with good results. I doubt that you will notice any difference at all between 25% nitro & 20% unless you're going for all-our performance. In that case you'd use the 35% blend, but for normal sport flying 20% will be fine. I've run my Coxs fine on 15% nitro fuel with hardly any performance drop noticeable over higher content fuel.

Rod.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  1/2A Nut on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:21 pm

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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  pkrankow on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:31 pm

10% total oil is a problem. Should be 20% oil.

Phil
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  NEW222 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:39 pm

Thanks for the help and information. I did recall reading somewhere about 20% castor, but was not thinking when I bought it. Ordering the stuff from Sig would more than likely cost an arm and a leg as the hazmat fees would be quite a bit. This is why my LHS no longer stocks the stuff they told me. This is now why the carry Morgan fuel only. I will look for other options of getting it though. Is there a formula that I could follow to make this 20% castor if I was to choose to? Would castor from the pharmacy be alright if I was to try it? I MAY try a tank or two to see what it runs like. Thank you.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  NEW222 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:47 pm

Just did a quick calculation and the fuel would be subject to a $28.50 HAZMAT fee on top of the cost of fuel, along with a $9.95 S&H AND actual shipping costs, of which is all in USD. Fuel was reasonable though. I will be doing some research as to possibly getting my hands on some somewhere, somehow.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  RknRusty on Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:20 pm

There's no hazmat charge on quarts from Sig, just the $9.xx shipping charge. You can buy as many Qts as you want in one order with no hazmat fee. I buy 4 Qts at a time when I run out of Powermaster. Right now, I have plenty of gallons of PM and one Qt of Sig left.

For boosting more than a few %, I would order some Klotz Benol or similar, it's been refined for engines and I believe causes less varnishing. I think Sig sells it. Klotz apparently stopped selling quarts to online customers last time I looked at their site.

I would research the Morgan formula carefully to confirm the oil content before I went that route.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  chevyiron420 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:56 pm

I looked on morgans website and the total oil content is 10%. Thats not good. I order my castor from brodak, but you may be able to buy it at motorcycle shops or kart racing shops.
Try this oil calculator.
http://www.nitrorc.com/default2.asp?Introduction=http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/oilonly.asp
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  KariFS on Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:07 am

I bought castor at the local pharmacy Smile
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:12 am

You can always buy some more castor to mix in additional oil when buying fuel at the local hobby store that use various castor / synthetic blends. As a rule of thumb I have never gone bellow 15% castor with any bushed engine.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:42 am

pkrankow wrote:10% total oil is a problem.  Should be 20% oil.

Phil

Seems I misread the original post. My answer was based on that I thought he meant the total oil was 20% with 10% castor. 10% total oil, regardless of the blend, would be no good in any engine in my opinion, except car engines where you would expect it to last only one race. Made for performance rather than protection.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  pkrankow on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:05 am

Oldenginerod wrote:
pkrankow wrote:10% total oil is a problem.  Should be 20% oil.

Phil

Seems I misread the original post.  My answer was based on that I thought he meant the total oil was 20% with 10% castor.  10% total oil, regardless of the blend, would be no good in any engine in my opinion, except car engines where you would expect it to last only one race.  Made for performance rather than protection.

10% total oil on SOME materials is plenty, definitely not plain bearings, and depending on the exact oil choice a very heavy load for SOME engines.  For our applications, this is the exception.  

50:1, or 2% is a typical oil load for larger 2-cycle engines, with marine engines using oil injection some use less than 1/2%.  The oil is not expected to remove heat from those engines.

But this is a separate set of points since a Cox engine is plain bearing, and relies of sticky oil to protect the ball socket connection tot he piston, and is steel on steel.

Phil
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  andrew on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:59 am

Sidewinder Pro is all that I've used for several years. They don't include the oil blend package on their containers or website, but a Morgan rep did respond to an email -- the mix is 50/50 syn/castor. I originally chose this fuel because of the initial low oil content --- starting at 10% total oil, I can add more castor and not dilute the nitro as much. I use Klotz BeNol racing castor for the oil additive -- Klotz was, and may still be, the vendor that SIG uses for its lube source, particularly the synthetics. Klotz BeNol has a reddish tinge, SIG castor would work just as well (it may be Klotz without the color additive).

Calculating the final blend from mixing Sidewinder 20/10 and 30/10 plus castor in not difficult, but it is tedious, consequently, I set up an Excel spreadsheet that let's me blend different amounts of two fuels and it will calculate the final mixture percentages. There is a screen shot in another recent thread: Mixing 15% and 35% Glowplugboy fuel.

If anyone would like a copy of the spreadsheet, I'll be happy to email it -- I can't attach it to a PM, so will need your email addy. The spreadsheet that Bernie has on the COX Int'l site is a modified version of this spreadsheet, only for single fuels.

I've had no problems with the Sidewinder Pro fuel at all -- but I do add castor to increase the overall oil content.

andrew
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  NEW222 on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:28 am

Thank you all again for your help and advice. Looks like I am off to the pharmacy this week. Seeing as I got a 1L bottle, I will probably mix smaller amounts as a little goes a long way with a 1/2a. Smile
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  NEW222 on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:36 am

Ok. I have to ask another little question regarding this. Seeing as my fuel is 10% overall (50/50 mix) oil, do I want 20% castor oil, or 20% overall? Cause the calculator link referenced earlier asks for current percentage of OIL, and total percentage of oil you would like overall. Or would I be safe by just entering the 10% in my fuel and a total of 20% that I would like to increase it to? Sorry for the dumb question, but do not want to loose an engine.
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Re: Sidewinder Pro 20% Fuel IN Cox Engines

Post  balogh on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:53 am

I wouldn't use less than 20% oil, preferably all castor in my COX engines. Some say 10% castor plus 10% syntetic is also fine. 20% all castor can give you 200+ hours run time with the engine retaining its compression and ball joint fit....my experience with TD051-s confirms that.
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