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Bonding with my Cardinal

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Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:48 am

Like the title says, I'm bonding with my Cardinal. I've mentioned it a few times but never said much else about it. It used to hang in Watts shop and I had already developed an affinity for the model. In the back of my mind, I'd always wished I could have one some day, and had been pitting for Wayne's yellow and black one since early in my stunt career.I flew a fair-for-me pattern in my movie from last Sunday's flight report, but the plane still had a few issues that needed trimming just to tighten it up, but no flyability problems. It's an old one, I don't know how old, from Watt's build table, and is the first one I've ever flown. Until now, I never realized what a big plane it is, 54" and 51 ounces, almost Identical to the Oriental minus 1" and 1 ounce. It'll be good for me to get used to and practice until my Twister, on the table now, is in action. That's the one I'll use to squeeze Mike Londke out with  next May. I have high hopes for the Walt Umland Fancherized Twister... and myself. But still emphasizing fun and relaxation, whatever-happens approach. We're going to have a mutually respectful shootout at the Carolina Classic for the Huntersville Intermediate Championship. Lol, I can't wait. But I'm rambling. All jacked and should be in bed.

Oh yeah, the Cardinal... it has an LA .46 on it which is also new to me. And I like it. A lot. And after about 10 or 12 flights, I like both the the airframe and the power plant. I think it's a great fit for me. I've been experimenting with props and RPMs to figure out how I like the way it handles. With an old wooden 11x5 square tip Zinger prop in the movie, I flew the most comfortable flight of any combo so far. A straight 2 stroke and about 5 second laps. If I settle on that setup, I'm going to increase my line length a couple of feet. I'l have to look at a chart to get 5.2 second laps., my favorite speed.................

And ya know what. I'm going to bed and write this flight report up in the morning.... or afternoon. Here are some pictures though. It's a really pretty bird from 5'.

The video:
https://youtu.be/1O27n5tlcyM

Some pics I shot in the shop tonight. At 10:30pm I ran out there for a quick pic and came back in at 1:45 Rolling Eyes




Here's a engine mount like Windy's I think. I'd have to check to be sure. Looks like it has a little problem with the attachment to the fuse, bit it seems tight for now. I tooka a pic of this for Roddie a cople of weeks ago and never showefd him, So hope you catch this Roddie. SAee, the engine is just clamped it and any size will fit, and you can slide it fore and aft to help balance. An engine swap is a piece of calke. This one is boogered thoiugh. One of the fuse bolts is a sheet metal screw... another eyeroll Rolling Eyes

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  getback on Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:30 am

Looked and sounded good to me , if your happy that's what counts ! I hope your going to replace the wood screw in the engine mount that's just asking for trouble that you don't need after the work ya put into getting this far with a good practice model , Thanks for the write up and video / pics . getback Airplane
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:52 am

getback wrote:Looked and sounded good to me , if your happy that's what counts ! I hope your going to replace the wood screw in the engine mount that's just asking for trouble that you don't need after the work ya put into getting this far with a good practice model , Thanks for the write up and video / pics . getback Airplane
Eric, I'll eventually straighten the bend and tap and replace the screw(unrelated to the bend) with a 5-40. But it's extremely tightly threaded into metal and doing its job. But yes, I do not like that sort of thing. I'm not exactly sure how this mount is anchored.

There is a strange thing I haven't found the reason for yet, the pushrod is connected to the shortest hole in the elevator horn to get full throw. However it's not especially twitchy. It probably has a 4" bellcrank. Also, the hinge lines on the flaps are uneven too, curved, causing the flaps to bow across their length and requiring me to tweak them a bit and add a 25° x 3" trim tab.

Later on I'll write of my various prop trial results.
Rusty

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  roddie on Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:46 am

Thanks Rusty. I think I see how it works. Wondering if the same might be accomplished by installing threaded inserts into the beams.. spaced far enough apart for the saddle-plate screws to provide for some fore/aft engine-adjustment? It looks like your base-plate has pulled up at the front from tightening? Maybe the base-plate could be designed to attach to the nose with it's screws "outside" of the holes for the saddle-plates? That would prevent the distortion when tightening.

Here's a crude sketch to show what I'm talking about.



Alternately; threaded-inserts installed in the beams to accept the saddle-screws.. instead of having to tap holes in two base-plates would save a lot of work and weight. Strips of thin rubber wrapped around the top/bottom of the case-lugs would help dampen vibration.. as well as keeping the engine from slipping. What do ya' think?
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  larrys4227 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:55 pm

roddie wrote:




My Brodak P-40 came with that type of engine mount. Worked fine for what it was, but I did have some vibration and the top saddle would never tighten down enough. Always alittle bit of dark grey goop in that area .... (aluminum rubbing together ... sure sign that things aren't tight enough)

A few months ago I installed a 35FP and simply got rid of the top saddle. The base plates were marked with the engine lug hole pattern ... and drilled and tapped. Added some engine offset too ...

Its been rock solid ever since ....
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  roddie on Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:41 pm

larrys4227 wrote:



My Brodak P-40 came with that type of engine mount.  Worked fine for what it was, but I did have some vibration and the top saddle would never tighten down enough.  Always alittle bit of dark grey goop in that area .... (aluminum rubbing together ... sure sign that things aren't tight enough)

That's where I wonder whether adding rubber-strips (pieces of inner-tube) over/under the lugs might help. I've used bicycle tire inner-tube material for many model applications. It's thin, easily cut with scissors, heat and fuel resistant. It would eliminate metal-to-metal contact.. and where it "compresses"; it's also like having an extra lock-washer to help keep mounting-screws tight.

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:18 pm

Roddie, I think isolating the engine with a rubber cushion, however thin, would let the engine vibrate more and cause performance problems. I am a firm believer that a solid nose with doublers and triplers coupling with the wing and good hard beams is the best way to attack vibration. My Twister even has a tripler on the outboard side.



If you want to prevent inferior aluminum from bending, maybe a piece of softer hardwood fore and aft of the lugs to act as squish blocks would help keep the clamping force distributed better. Harder metal for the whole assembly when it's first built is the real answer. I have it on good authority(learned it an hour ago) that Windy Urtnowski used 6061 aluminum.
Rusty

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:35 pm

Hi Rusty,
I think the Cardinal is a great plane, one of my favorite (I also ran a .46LA) here's pics of the motor mount, same idea, but used countersunk (flathead) Allen head bolts up thru the bottom and attached with safety nuts. That way there's no way it can move and with cheep aluminum stock you can quickly make another set of mounts for a different engine or to reposition engine.

(Sorry for the fuzzy engine, its been hanging in the basement for tens years!)


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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  akjgardner on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:25 am

Iv'e had my la 46 for about 20 years now , great little engine for the price
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:21 am

Mark, AMA issued you another number for being a CD?
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:52 am

I understand you can drop all but the last 4 digits, at least that was Wayne's case. Unless it corresponds with an existing number, I guess. Then you'd have to change it.
I've been thinking of requesting dropping the zeros in my number. That would make it 16822 if t's not taken.

Mark, that's a nice Cardinal, what kind of silver paint did you use?
Congratulations on your 3rd place. That's not so easy to accomplish when you're not at Huntersville.
Rusty

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:58 am

Ken Cook wrote:            Mark, AMA issued you another number for being a CD?

I don't remember if it was automatic or an option, but back in the 90's, i think every CD had a 4 digit number.

The Cardinal is Sig dope with polyspan(?) a heavy duty type silkspan.
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:10 pm

I may make a similar scheme for my Twister, though I'll be using Monokote.

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:03 pm

yep, a lot of wet sanding and buffing...
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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  RknRusty on Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:06 am

More about flight trimming the Cardinal.

I managed to straighten the flaps out and replace the trim tab with a much smaller aluminum one bent down at 25° so not so much drag as the old giant brass tab.

The LA46 is a new power plant for me and I'm figuring out how I want it to run. At first I had an old Zinger 11x5 and ran the engine with a steady 2 stroke. It had extremely good authority, pulling tight even straight overhead. I was worried about the age of the prop, and the lack of availability, so I tried a new style Zinger 11x5 with a semi-scimitar shape, and even with a steady 2 stroke run, it was slow and gutless compared to the flat tipped older Zinger.

Wayne runs 12x5 or 12x6 APCs on his LA 46 engines and likes them. So I mounted a 12x5 Zinger scimitar to try. He insisted on needling it rich for a 4-2 break, launching at 9200 RPM and it was uncomfortably slow for me, and not at all confident in the wingover. But I flew a pattern until it burped in the first loop of the clover and ran out soon after I bailed out of the maneuver. I'm using a 4.5 ounce uniflow tank. I'm thinking the scimitar is wrong for this plane.

So next I tried an APC I had in my prop box, a 12.25 x 4.75. Launched at 9400 RPM, it flew much better and it really did a nice 4-2 break, but again burped in the first loop of the clover.

All this time I'm thinking how I loved that original hard pulling 5 second lap 2 stroke run I had with the old flat tipped Zinger, with 10 spare laps after the clover. Knowing I can't depend on replacements for the old style Zinger, I got online and ordered 3 each of 11x6 and 11x5 Master Airscrews. They are almost identical in shape to the old Zinger, slightly heavier, but I'm hopeful they'll get me back where I want to be. I don't care about a 4-2 break. It sounds cool, but the needle setting is more critical and subject to environmental mood changes. Besides, I have plenty of gas for a 2-stroke run, and I think the LA is probably happier doing that too, be it cool or not.

So I'm itching to get back out and put this plane to work with these new props and hope I get that authoritative engine run back. As I said, with the first old 11x5 Zinger, she was clipping along at 5 second laps. I want this bird to overpower the wind and that takes speed. So if I decide on one of these MA props, if it's too fast, I will add some length to the lines to slow the lap times. I think 5.2 seconds on the end of 62' lines would get it done. I hope these MAs are up to the challenge. Looks like Sunday and Tuesday might be good days to try it out..

Can't wait to file a flight report and have the results I'm hgoping for. I'm ready to start getting some consistent practice without having to screw with it every time.
Rusty

Old Zinger


New Zinger(what I call the scimitar)


Master airscrew

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Re: Bonding with my Cardinal

Post  getback on Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:47 am

Rusty is that the prop I sent you some time back I know I have some of those but cant remember if it were 10-11" Towers has them, I didn't look any further .... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXLG02&P=8 getback sunny
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