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Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

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Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:20 am

Watching television last night, it came to me why the home made Firebaby decals dissolved in water.  I forgot that you have to clear coat them first.  I always used Krylon clear, but for these I will try Top Flights Lustrekote clear.  Krylon tends to yellow decals, hopefully Lustrekote won't.

Worked well on my Cyclone but yellowed considerably.



Hopefully the Lusterkote clear will work better on these.

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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  Kim on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:42 am

Cool Plane !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Where I am.

Fuselage was badly twisted horizontally but fixed with a heat gun and a little bending. But it was also twisted vertically that I did not notice until I put in the horizontal stabilizer. I could mount it in a jig apply heat and twist but I don't know how the paint would react. I hate to mess with it as the stab fits perfectly now with just the right amount of tightness.

I could file the offending sides down and trim with balsa the opposing sides. Leaning toward heat and twist as it worked so well with the bend.

Not worried about adding weight to the tail as this thing is really nose heavy. I have no idea how it flew with that Silver Bee sitting out front.

Would make for some interesting flight characteristics. Normally I wouldn't care, but I'm beginning to like this wreck.







I really don't like cloth hinges, especially those I make myself, but these didn't turn out too bad.





Bob
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:07 pm


"Not worried about adding weight to the tail as this thing is really nose heavy."

Still not too late to put a starterless Wen-Mac and a Perfect tank on it.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:34 pm

Well Bob,

The obvious choice is a bone stock small tank babe bee. I won’t comment on the Wen Mac... Rolling Eyes

That twist will cause it to roll inward. If it went the other way you would be golden. It will be fun either way, but the best chance of survival would be to take that twist out.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:07 pm

When the Firebaby first came to market, a "bone stock" Baby Bee didn't exist. The common 1/2A engines were Andersons, Atwoods, Cubs, K&Bs and Wen Wacs-- all which yielded proper weight and balance when used with separate tank (and no Rotomatic starter in the case of the Wen Macs).
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:41 pm

Actually it is a nice resurrection of a wreck Bob, kudos. Regarding handling with a slightly tilted empenage, a free flighter would know more how it would react. It would tend to gently turn one way or another, but on 30 foot lines, may be okay, I dunno. Anyway, congrats on the fine job of restoring it. Thumbs Up
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:09 pm

ticomareado wrote:When the Firebaby first came to market, a "bone stock" Baby Bee didn't exist. The common 1/2A  engines were Andersons, Atwoods, Cubs, K&Bs and Wen Wacs-- all which yielded proper weight and balance when used with separate tank (and no Rotomatic starter in the case of the Wen Macs).  

Sorry, probably should have held my disdain for the Wen Mac to myself. The Babe Bee was introduced in 1956, long before that version of the Firebaby came into existence. Seeing as the silver bee bolt pattern was already in the firewall I figured if Bob would like to lose some nose weight, using the smaller tanked bee would make more sense. The Wen Mac is a beam mount engine which would require modification.

Sorry if I offended.

Ron
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 pm

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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:32 pm

The Wen Mac .049 had both beam and 3 bolt bulkhead mount as alluded to by ticomareado. The "Cox" tank bolt pattern for bulkhead mounting was used by OK in their tank Cub and several other manufacturers with their tank engines, so this bolt pattern was fairly universal.

Leroy Cox was able to get his creations to naturally pump out more HP than the others plus by streamlining manufacturing using latest equipment of the time and best techniques undercut competition by a long shot, that by the end of the 1960's they were about the only game in town in Half-A. Testors was the only other that managed to continue on.

My early RC and CL days were all Cox. They were affordable, reliable and well supported with parts. So it is not hard to understand why there is a love for these Cox engines.

One can make the less powerful one perform, but it will require a careful matching the engine to the right airframe to enjoy it.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  getback on Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:49 am

Hey Bob they make a decal print paper for slid off decal , print, spray with Testors Decal Bonder Spray , i got this stuff at Hobby Lobby . Got the decal print paper off line HL may have that too , don't know . I can't remember if it is fuel proof but i always spray dope or clear fuel proof after putting on the plane . works good for me . Note : they make paper in clear and white soooo clear is more better . Eyebrows
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:08 am

Well, for better or for worse, it's all over except for the flying.

Standard early 350 5cc Babe Bee out front.

Yes Eric, that's what I used for the decals, lousy job of cutting them out. I positioned them several different ways, what you see is the least offensive.

I chucked up the fuselage in the vice, applied heat and twisted the tail section (horizontal stab) back into shape. Came out near perfect. Can't say as much for the vertical stab or the rudder.



Controls in ready for Freddy.








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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:30 am

Nice restoration!

And here is a little Firebaby History:

introduced Oct 1950 with the Anderson Baby Spitfire engine, balsa fuselage and stabilizer, aluminum rudder, balloon tank.  The plane itself was basically unchanged until the plastic fuselage version in 19?? (sorry, have to find that date yet)

May 1952 Anderson Royal Spitfire 065
July 1952 Anderson Royal Spitfire 065 with Supercharger option for $0.80 (Someone tell me what this was)
Sept. 1952 Firebaby Bipe with Anderson Royal Spitfire 065 with Supercharger
Dec. 1952 Firebaby with either Royal Spitfire .065 Supercharged, OK Cub (.049 first cub), Baby Spit .045, K&B Torp .049, or Wasp.049






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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:50 am

Thanks GWillie. Now I think it is incumbent on the Cox Nazis to show us some AJ box art or ads depicting a Firebaby with a Cox product up front.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:54 am

Thanks Bill,

Wow less than ten bucks for an engine equipped bipe.

I have a few Royal Spitfires and early Cubs.  Hadn't heard of the "Supercharged" version.  Must have a big blower on top. Smile

From an ebay auction last week.  I made my usual one time proxy bid but was snipped at the end.  Some one got it for $143 IIRC





Two wings, I don't know if this one was a Bipe, or if they came with a spare wing.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:06 am

They sold a version of a Firebaby with spare wings.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:20 am



Last edited by Mark Boesen on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:22 am

You can see it all here:

http://www.americanjuniorclassics.com/index.html

https://oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/aj_model_airplanes_jim_walker/#.XAQSFWfQaBY

Jim Walker died in 1958 but AJ models continued onward for many years. You won't find any commercial art produced by AJ Models, Inc with a Cox product in it while he was alive. The first time I remember seeing any Cox product commercially depicted by AJ Models was when the Firebrand foam wing model came out in the late sixties.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:51 am

I stand by my original assertions. Mark's images of instruction sheets with Baby Bees appear to be after Pactra Industries acquired AJ Models.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Thanks for the links and pictures Mark and Victor. All the things I did not know about Jim Walker and American Junior.

Seems they really got going around 1952, that's when I first was smitten by the control line bug. Back then I was all wrapped up with Hollow log Scientific models designed mostly by Walt Musciano and with Cox engines. I do not ever recall seeing a Jim Walker Firebaby in any Hobby shop back then.

Bob
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:28 pm

I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you concerning the engines that were bolted on the various models. You are probably correct on all points.

In the case of Bob’s version it already had a bee engine on it so it makes sense to put one back on the nose as he wouldn’t have to change anything.

My Testors/McCoy Wen Mac jabs are tongue in cheek as I really don’t care who uses what on whatever. I will be a little more careful in my wording in the future.

This is a Cox Engine forum so there will always be a little brand loyalty towards Cox Engines. All model engines are welcomed here though big and small and all brands.

That said, I apologize Bob for derailing your thread and you did a great job getting that plane airworthy again. It looks so much better and I hope you can get a video when you decide to fly it.





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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:57 pm

I never have any derailing or hyjack problems with my often dis-jointed threads Ron, I along with everyone else learn something from comments that are not directly related.  

I have already started cutting out replacement parts for this model, wing, horizontal stab.  

I would like to trace the fuselage and make another one from 1/4" balsa pilot silhouette and all, then attach the other parts the same way.  Then use a tanked Ok Cub or a remote tank Royal Spit.  Will probably do it.  Heading to Hobby Lobby tomorrow.  

Got to admit.  It was a journey from here to there.





BTW, epoxy worked very well filling and securing those separated stress cracks, even when I removed the shims. I was not sure if epoxy would adhere to plastic well enough to do the job.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:07 pm

Regarding Royal Spitfire .065 on Firebaby. The .065 is beam mount only and the ones you see in the ad art by AJ are most surely mounted by some kind of adapter supplied with that particular edition of the package deal kit. Also be advised that .065 is rather heavy. On the other hand, a Royal Spitfire .049 uses a clone of Atwood's two bolt back plate mounting system and is much lighter than the .065.

Now, as a peace offering to Cox Nazis, a good running Pee Wee .020 will work quite nicely on a Firebaby. Of course we could go with a full mod Tee Dee .049 on a bladder like that Texas R/C speed demon guy uses and fly it 'til the wing buckles in two.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:47 pm

I'm gathering materials for a balsa Firebaby. I probably have enough on hand to do 3 or 4. Looking at a triangle mount Wen Mac .049 or a Royal Spitfire and a remote tank that would fit nicely in the void behind the firewall. A landing gear from a PT-19 and I'm in business.





Why not everybody here build one over the winter and we have a fly-off in the spring???????????

Chancey has the PDF, and I know you guys have got scads of balsa gathering dust!!!! If not five bucks at Hobby Lobby and your in business.

Ya see what happens when it's winter and I can't get to my MG. Smile I get to bother all you guys.
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Re: Firebaby, memory loss and decals. :(

Post  ticomareado on Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:07 pm

I also wanted to say that Bob does nice work on some pretty hopeless looking stray cats and gits-R-done quick.
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