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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:26 am

I have a TD and a Medallion .09.

The TD is slightly better. However the Medallion compression is pretty low. It starts and runs then slows. Easily stalls when slows down. I'm in the process of trying to track down an improved cylinder for both of the old relics. So far not but am looking. Question I have. With lower compression is it usually only the cylinder that has wear? Or does the Piston also wear out. I've fixed a couple .020 that were fixed with just the cylinder replacement. Might the .09 also only need the cylinder changed?

Thanks
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  1/2A Nut on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:33 am

How much prop are you tasking it to swing and how much castor oil are you using to keep
the steel on steel heater cooled? Castor helps add compression when the engine is hot and
reduces wear greatly retaining precious compression.

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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty RE: .09 piston and cylinder wear

Post  66 Malibu on Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:32 am

Have you reset the piston and rod with an .09 tool ?
At TDC, with the head off and a prop attached, if the prop can be moved more than 2 or 3 degrees either direction without the piston moving, then it must be reset.
It might feel good and tight but only a few degrees turning without movement will affect your engine performance.
Before I got the entire reset tool set, I very carefully reset a TD.09 with a .049/.051 tool with great results.
The key word is CAREFULLY.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  ticomareado on Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:57 pm

To answer original question, the cylinder is of soft steel and the piston is hard.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:06 pm

Is the low compression due to the glow head not being flat or the head gaskets being old.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:46 pm

Thanks gentleman for the good comments. I only have one head gasket for rack motor as can't seem to find those gaskets anywhere?? Hope not too hard.

The head does seem to be sealing ok. One head was burnt so lathed it to become an insert with a K&B long plug.

The Piston does seem to have some play. I have .049 reset tool. Will carefully reset as suggested.

I use 10% castor with a 25% nitro already having synthetic. Works well in all my motors. My .015 runs AWESOME.

Thanks very much.

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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  getback on Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 pm

Yea man i hope u get the reset done and FIND those gaskets , i know how it is sometimes with too much stuff!! I think Huh... with a reset and 2 new head gaskets , Good Hot plug , 7X3-4 P prop it should come alive . Let us know Very Happy
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 pm

Well I reset the piston lightly and took any slop out of it. I don't have any more of the head gaskets I only have a single one that is in the motor. All mine are for either .049 .020 or .010. I polished the head gasket and replaced all. It doesn't feel like it has any more compression but I will try it later tonight. I'll let you know.

Thanks
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  balogh on Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:25 pm

A slight help may be provided by using a devarnisher brush: by advancing it through the cylinder swirling/rotating it like a bolt and definitely not pushing through the cylinder (that would leave unwanted longitudinal scratches) some fine circumferential marks are "scratched" into the liner wall that will retain the castor for better sealing. (Like the honing marks in a new cylinder) . Use it with caution, running it through only once or twice at a time, because excessive use will have the opposite effect..

A brass gun brush will do.. I bought mine in a gunshop...the size matches the 09 cylinder.

.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear 20190610
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:17 am

ok I've cross hatch scratched the cylinder as well with a pipe brush similar to the gun cleaning brush shown in the picture. I'll give a run later tonight. It might seem just a skosh more compression than before. I hope that the wear in run will improve even more.

Thanks!
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  getback on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:50 am

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Last edited by getback on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : double post)
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:57 am

Tried the brush in the cylinder. Went for a start tonight and seems the cylinder no longer will start. A bit bummed. Now my Medallion .09 won't even run. Did the scratches very lightly.

Thanks
Ice

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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  balogh on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:33 am

Sorry for that Ice..it looks like your cylinder has really been used up to its useful lifetime. I do not think the cross-wise de-varnishing marks will add to the compression loss. More to the contrary, these are considered to strengthen the oil film adherence to the surface and thus retain compression a bit. I have a fairly used 09 cylinder. If you pm me your postal address I will send it to you free.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:58 pm

Hi Balogh
Thanks for the reply. I sent a PM did you get it? The message function seems to have an issue at the moment,

Thanks!!
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Post  Iceberg on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:15 pm

Hi Balogh
Maybe check your inbox. It might be full and needing some messages deleted or something?? seems I can't send anything to you?

Thanks
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 pm

Iceberg wrote: I polished the head gasket and replaced all.

Do you mean the gasket itself or the gasket surface of the head? I really think you're going to need to fit a new gasket or two. Old gaskets compress and harden so that they no longher conform to the surface, causing a leak.
Also, I know there are people who recommend sanding the head surface flat. Flat is good, but there is always the danger that the surface will end up being not perpendicular to the threads of the head. A slight misalignment may be overcome with a couple of new soft gaskets.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:20 pm

Hi Oldenginerod
Thanks for the note.

I sadly only have a single copper gasket for the .09. I have about 100 for .049 but not for .09. Is there anyway I can cut and use the .049 ones and carefully lay them at the lip at the top? Or is there another material or way to add additional shims or head gaskets (the copper ones)?

Thanks
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:13 pm

Iceberg wrote:Hi Oldenginerod
Thanks for the note.

I sadly only have a single copper gasket for the .09. I have about 100 for .049 but not for .09. Is there anyway I can cut and use the .049 ones and carefully lay them at the lip at the top? Or is there another material or way to add additional shims or head gaskets (the copper ones)?

Thanks
Ice
I have heard of people cutting gaskets from aluminium drink cans, although I imagine this would be very difficult and I am unsure whether the thickness would be adequate.

Trying to use the .049 gaskets will not work- cutting them will never allow them to seal.

The bore-brush would not remove any material. As Balogh has said, any circumfrential scratches in the bore should assist the compression. Sounds to me like the removal and refit of the head gasket is what has reduced your compression following the bore clean.

If you have no other options apart from reusing your original gasket, maybe you can use some RTV automotive sealant on the gasket and in the threads of the head. Let it cure overnight before putting it under pressure.

Ultimately, the only way to properly solve the problem is to fit a new correct gasket.

Rod.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  KariFS on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:44 am

Maybe you could try to anneal the used copper gasket?

Heat it "cherry red" with a gas flame and let cool. It should make the material soft again.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:14 am

Hi KariFS
Thanks will try that. I only am worried I will heat it too much and melt it. Then problem.

I'll try.

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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  balogh on Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:28 am

Iceberg wrote:Hi Balogh
Maybe check your inbox. It might be full and needing some messages deleted or something?? seems I can't send anything to you?

Thanks
Ice

Hi Darren,

as per the underlying pm messaging, the envelope has been sent to you with the complete, though used, top-end 09 overhaul set..as to the compression loss, I know it is a no-brainer, but putting a few drops of fuel in between the head and cylinder fins then driving the piston up will tell and show you in the shape of bubbles if the culprit is the worn head gasket, or, worse, the cylinder/piston fit.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  ffkiwi on Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 am

.09 gaskets are not hard to find-MECOA makes them, and Matts at Ex model engines sells them:
http://www.ebaystores.com/EX-Model-Engines/Cox-09-Parts-/_i.html?_fsub=603904012&_sid=817916422&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Personally I suggest you acquire stocks of gaskets for ALL your Cox engines-I always keep at least half a dozen of each size from .010 to .15 in my spares box-sooner or later you need them-and they are not expensive. From time to time you will need additional gaskets to adjust head clearance to compensate for a fuel change or atmospheric conditions, or a non OEM head....

ChrisM
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 am

ffkiwi wrote:.09 gaskets are not hard to find-MECOA makes them, and Matts at Ex model engines sells them:
ChrisM
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They're listed at Cox International as well.
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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:32 am

Thanks that was a quick question I had. Where to buy the gaskets. I had seen only .049 .020 and .010. I'll look at the places mentioned.

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.09 Piston and Cylinder Wear Empty Re: .09 Piston and Cylinder Wear

Post  Iceberg on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:34 am

Hi Balogh
I had squirted fuel around the head. No bubbles were seen. Do yes seems the Piston and cylinder are very tired now.

Thanks very much for the help!

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