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"Cherry Bomb" .051 engine

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Post  chevyiron420 Wed May 20, 2015 7:20 pm

The one im talking about doesnt go in the wrist pin, it goes in the crankshaft. After you slip the rod on the crank, then you install the little plastic button in the hole in the crank. It keeps the rod on the crank and controls the end play. I have not done this but I heard you can make one from a plastic screw from the hardware store.
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Post  rsv1cox Wed May 20, 2015 7:27 pm

@chevyiron420 wrote:The one im talking about doesnt go in the wrist pin, it goes in the crankshaft. After you slip the rod on the crank, then you install the little plastic button in the hole in the crank. It keeps the rod on the crank and controls the end play. I have not done this but I heard you can make one from a plastic screw from the hardware store.

Mis-read your reply. Got it. Making sense now. This engine had been disassembled, it's probably under somebodys work bench right now.
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Post  Marleysky Wed May 20, 2015 8:16 pm

I think this is a set by Chellie on e bay:  see the plastic rivet looking thingy....

www.ebay.com/itm/2Kits-McCOY-29-RH-BH-Gasket-Kits-Nylon-Crank-Spacers-/141672289008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc5392f0


May not be the correct engine size, but I'm sure they make them for your size.  I also seem to remember reading that a "pop" rivet of the correct diameter could be used by punching out the drive pin of the pop rivet. Not having any luck with the search function to find that older post. (May have been Roddie or GallopingGhostler a while back)

Oh here's the one for the 35:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/McCOY-35-RH-BH-OverHaul-Kit-and-Rebuilding-Information-/141670541189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc38e785


Last edited by Marleysky on Thu May 21, 2015 6:52 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Size 35)
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Post  gcb Wed May 20, 2015 9:24 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:
@chevyiron420 wrote:The one im talking about doesnt go in the wrist pin, it goes in the crankshaft. After you slip the rod on the crank, then you install the little plastic button in the hole in the crank. It keeps the rod on the crank and controls the end play. I have not done this but I heard you can make one from a plastic screw from the hardware store.

Mis-read your reply.  Got it.  Making sense now.  This engine had been disassembled, it's probably under somebodys work bench right now.  
 
From online discussions over the years, apparently lots of McCoys shipped without the plastic button.

George
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Post  Cribbs74 Wed May 20, 2015 9:58 pm

Looking at the scoring on the backplate below, I would venture to say that the plastic buffer was never present.

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Kqql5IK
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed May 20, 2015 11:04 pm

@chevyiron420 wrote:The one I'm talking about doesn't go in the wrist pin, it goes in the crankshaft. After you slip the rod on the crank, then you install the little plastic button in the hole in the crank. It keeps the rod on the crank and controls the end play. I have not done this but I heard you can make one from a plastic screw from the hardware store.
In the McCoy instructions, it is called the Crank Throw Spacer and is made of nylon. I'm using a 1/8" aluminum pop rivet with the metal riveting shank removed on a trial basis, with the button end polished. It fits the crank pin hole perfectly.

Shellie AKA E-Bay verysassyblond supplies these with her McCoy gasket kits.

@Cribbs74 wrote:Looking at the scoring on the backplate below,  I would venture to say that the plastic buffer was never present.

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Kqql5IK
That may be the case, Ron. If one were to carefully polish out any sharp ridges grooved into the backplate, could still make use of that engine. I imagine that frequent use of an electric starter could damage the nylon crank throw spacer. Never tried it but I suppose one could fill the groove with JB Weld and carefully file to restore backplate smoothness.
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Post  Oldenginerod Thu May 21, 2015 12:31 am

I would just face off the backplate on some wet & dry sandpaper and if there's too much movement in the crank after the plastic button is installed, maybe fit a small brass washer under the head of the button to space it out a little.

When I pulled my .29 down for the first time I found a small piece of brass tubing inside the crank pin. Apparently early ones used a brass button, similar to George's use of a pop rivet. Mine had competely worn off the head. the plastic button is a direct replacement.

Chellie also does a twin pack of gasket sets with your choice of size engine, as well as individual. Mine came with all 3 gaskets, the spacer button and a "McCoy Powered" sticker, along with a full sheet of rebuild tips and instructions. Really good value.

Rod.
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Post  Ken Cook Thu May 21, 2015 4:32 am

One thing I would be concerned with is the spraybar. Your needle and spraybar looks as though it's from a O&R sideport engine. The diameter of those spraybars were quite small. If you look into your venturi stack, there already is a restrictor that was used in conjunction with the stock spraybar which was larger in diameter. Your spraybar could compromise fuel draw, it may not matter with the smaller diameter. However, it probably doesn't fit the case hole all that well and this could cause air leaks. A Super Tiger spraybar which is .156" fits the case quite well. It does rob a slight bit of power if left in stock form. The rubbing you see on your backplate can be a variety of faults. If the wrist pin hole is not square to the piston or egged out, it has the conrod running in a oblong travel path. This can be the result of the wear pattern deeper on one side vs the other. A good running bushed engine is one that's borderline worn out. It's not a bad thing to have the crank wobbling all over as long as your fuel economy is still good and fuel isn't pouring out the front. The crank wobbling though can also do this to your backplate. A crash can jam the crank into the backplate as well. I've done my share of breaking backplates due to this. The nylon spacers that Chellie provides will more than likely have to be sanded down to allow a little end play. Ken
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Post  Oldenginerod Thu May 21, 2015 5:06 am

@Ken Cook wrote:                One thing I would be concerned with is the spraybar. Your needle and spraybar looks as though it's from a O&R sideport engine. The diameter of those spraybars were quite small.

The spray bars & needles that MECOA sell for the Testors 21 series are a good fit and look like the original (if that matters to you). Only trouble I had was that I had to fit a washer to align the spray hole with the centre of the venturi. As I have mentioned previously, the 21 series screw sets also fit the Red Heads and I suspect their gaskets do as well. These screws will retain an authentic look if that's what you're after, rather than using socket head screws.

Rod.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu May 21, 2015 6:58 am

Actually the back plate isn't scored but it sure looks like it was in that other picture.

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Back%20plate%20005_zpsliosmckn

Whatever contamination that was there was removed by media blasting.  

I had found Chellies 29/40 sets but could not find that .35 that Marley shows.  Thanks I ordered a set.  Hopefully she will end the auction, don't want to wait the seven + days for it to end.  I bid over the asking price.  

Thanks for all the help, it’s turning out quite nice.  I hope that it runs as well as it looks, there was compression despite corrupted gaskets.

And yes, I was surprised to see that the spray bar was threaded all the way, and the venturi is really small.  I do have some spare Series 21 parts, will have to compare.

The crankshaft itself shows very little wear and fits tightly in the crankcase with no wobble, I will check end play when I get it all together.  I will try that 1/8" pop rivet thingy..... Smile

That spray bar fits tightly in the case, there are gaskets on either end. I sure would like to find a parts list/diagram on this motor. Should be quite close to the series 21's.
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Post  getback Thu May 21, 2015 7:34 am

She's Looking good !! I missed reading that thread Ian put up on media blasting Sad will have to find it , Been stupid busy this past few days Mad You think not working a JOB would give you plenty of time Huh... Wrong\\\ You going to run that thing Bob ? Eric Very Happy
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Post  rsv1cox Thu May 21, 2015 12:32 pm

Yes, I'm going to run it. I just ordered a new spray bar/needle assy from MECOA along with some other parts. I just don't have anything in-house to hang it on so I will have to buy a .35 sized kit. Any suggestions?
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Post  CHELLIE Thu May 21, 2015 5:09 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Actually the back plate isn't scored but it sure looks like it was in that other picture.

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Back%20plate%20005_zpsliosmckn

Whatever contamination that was there was removed by media blasting.  

I had found Chellies 29/40 sets but could not find that .35 that Marley shows.  Thanks I ordered a set.  Hopefully she will end the auction, don't want to wait the seven + days for it to end.  I bid over the asking price.  

Thanks for all the help, it’s turning out quite nice.  I hope that it runs as well as it looks, there was compression despite corrupted gaskets.

And yes, I was surprised to see that the spray bar was threaded all the way, and the venturi is really small.  I do have some spare Series 21 parts, will have to compare.

The crankshaft itself shows very little wear and fits tightly in the crankcase with no wobble, I will check end play when I get it all together.  I will try that 1/8" pop rivet thingy..... Smile

That spray bar fits tightly in the case, there are gaskets on either end.  I sure would like to find a parts list/diagram on this motor.  Should be quite close to the series 21's.

Hi Smile Got your Gasket Kits sent out in the mail Smile I normally end my Auctions for gasket kits once a bid is placed, Thank You for your Purchase, You Guys are keeping me Busy, But I am not Complaining Smile LOL

on your Piston, wrap it with some 1000 Grit wet dry sand paper and use a small bar in the rod end and polish the piston skirt, it wont take much, 4 or 5 twist in the sand paper, that will knock down any raised metal at any minor scratch mark.

I normally chuck the crank shaft in a drill press on the threads and use a dial mic to check for trueness, tap the end of the crank gently with the plastic end of a screw driver to align the crank shaft, I normally remove the belt from the drill press and turn the chuck by hand, I normall get the crank to with in .001 of an inch, you will be surprised at how untrue the cranks can be, I have had some cranks .020" out of alignment.

On the nylon crank spacer, they are a tad oversized, that Allows you to sand them to a perfect fit of about 2 -3 thousands of a inch free play clearance, as all engines will require a different thickness due to wear on the back plate. on some of the McCoy 19 Engines, I have had to use 2 end plate gaskets, because the spacer had to be sanded so thin to fit and there was very little nylon material left on the spacer, so on my 19 kits, I give 2 back plate gaskets, also some of the cranks on the 19 engines are not drilled out to 1/8" some are smaller for the crank spacer, so I let people know that they can hold the spacer with a piece of vacuum tubing and turn it in a drill and sand the spacer shaft with a nail file to get the right fit. Hope that info helps, Take care and have Fun, Chellie
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Post  Cribbs74 Thu May 21, 2015 9:16 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Yes, I'm going to run it.  I just ordered a new spray bar/needle assy from MECOA along with some other parts.  I just don't have anything in-house to hang it on so I will have to buy a .35 sized kit.  Any suggestions?  

Bob,

That is a loaded question as there a thousands of .35 sized kits/plans available.

For ease of build, good looks and fun flying the venerable Ringmaster can't be beat. That's my vote. Flown by the 10's of thousands and lauded by many. It's an oldie but a goodie!

If your McCoy is in good nick then it will fly it with authority.

Ron
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Post  chevyiron420 Thu May 21, 2015 10:20 pm

My vote goes to the Magician.
http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/classic-stunt/magician-kit.html
see if the link works.
Thats what my redhead is on and I love it.
Phil
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Post  Cribbs74 Thu May 21, 2015 10:25 pm

@chevyiron420 wrote:My vote goes to the Magician.
http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/classic-stunt/magician-kit.html
see if the link works.
Thats what my redhead is on and I love it.
Phil

I have one of those, another good choice. Like I said, loaded question. There are so many good flying .35 designs.
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Post  rsv1cox Fri May 22, 2015 7:04 am

Thanks for the tips Chellie, I'm looking forward to receiving those gaskets so I can finish and test this engine.

Just for grins and my own self-gratification I assembled it lightly using just the old head gasket. Nothing torqued down.

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 OOU%20McCoy%20011_zps5nlf7vi9

I like the "frosted" look, it wears it quite well. I could spend an hour or so with a dremel and some buffers and polishing compound but for me it wouldn't be worth the effort. I cut the crankcase machine screws down to size. I used blued 4/40 slotted fillister heads as I like their appearance. From what I have seen these came with socket/Phillips heads too.

I have been looking at Top Flights Flight Streak, vintage kit appeals to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-FLIGHT-FLIGHT-STREAK-CONTROL-LINE-BALSA-MODEL-AIRPLANE-KIT-/111670989995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a001c14ab

But I like the Ringmaster/Magician kits too. I love the Noblers but at this stage they might be to much for me, besides they always seem to be out of stock. Other considerations - Sig's Skyray/Banshee.
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Post  rsv1cox Fri May 22, 2015 7:36 am

Whoops, won another one:

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 McCoy%20eb%20lg_zpsimpoy2rx

Like potato chips. $25 shipped for both.

Came with this:

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Cox%20eb%20lg_zpsvu5cq1ha

Out of a PT-19. Notice the blue gas tank nipple. Broken off, so common with these. I have a fix. Smile
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Post  getback Fri May 22, 2015 7:47 am

Bob Man That really looks SWEET !! I like the frosty look also very clean , About the kits I have not flown a 35 size plane YET , I have a old 29 size shoestring that I want to fly as soon as I can get around to repairing it from moving rash and control / bellcrank problems /  On a note from what I have read about vintage kits (here) is that the wood is some time poor quality and warped , causing replacement or straighten wood and the new kit's would bee my suggestion Very Happy Laser cut is faster <  The Akromaster 15-19 size is in Q for the next build / and some speed planes ! I want to getback with a midsize before going full blown , either the OS or maybe the McCoy 19 I have about got broken in Huh... That thing puts out a good thrust line with the 9x5 ? prop I have on it . Can't wait to hear that rebuild run Very Happy Just can't get enough I see lol! Clapping Clapping Good deal
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Post  rsv1cox Fri May 22, 2015 12:26 pm

Found a 1/8” aluminum pop rivet, worked it smooth with some 600 grit paper and “popped” it in the cranks hole and yup, as reported it fits perfectly. Where do you guys come up with this stuff.....

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Sky%20pilot%20misc%20009_zpsevryflsr

Got the gaskets I ordered from ICBIM Products today, found them before I was directed to Chellies. They fit nice but seem thinner than the ones in Chellies photos and they don’t come with the button.

I installed them and if I thought I had great compression before, I really get pops now. This was sold as a parts engine, but it looks to have been used very little.

Bob
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri May 22, 2015 5:35 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Thanks for the tips Chellie, I'm looking forward to receiving those gaskets so I can finish and test this engine.

Just for grins and my own self-gratification I assembled it lightly using just the old head gasket.  Nothing torqued down.  

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 OOU%20McCoy%20011_zps5nlf7vi9

I like the "frosted" look, it wears it quite well.  I could spend an hour or so with a dremel and some buffers and polishing compound but for me it wouldn't be worth the effort.  I cut the crankcase machine screws down to size.  I used blued 4/40 slotted fillister heads as I like their appearance.  From what I have seen these came with socket/Phillips heads too.  

I have been looking at Top Flights Flight Streak, vintage kit appeals to me.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-FLIGHT-FLIGHT-STREAK-CONTROL-LINE-BALSA-MODEL-AIRPLANE-KIT-/111670989995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a001c14ab

But I like the Ringmaster/Magician kits too.  I love the Noblers but at this stage they might be to much for me, besides they always seem to be out of stock.  Other considerations - Sig's Skyray/Banshee.  

Good choice!

Can't say I like the styling, but the ones I have come into contact with fly very well.

You would probably have a better plane if you purchased a Brodak kit, but I understand wanting an original.

Ron
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Post  CHELLIE Fri May 22, 2015 9:33 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Thanks for the tips Chellie, I'm looking forward to receiving those gaskets so I can finish and test this engine.

Just for grins and my own self-gratification I assembled it lightly using just the old head gasket.  Nothing torqued down.  

McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 OOU%20McCoy%20011_zps5nlf7vi9

I like the "frosted" look, it wears it quite well.  I could spend an hour or so with a dremel and some buffers and polishing compound but for me it wouldn't be worth the effort.  I cut the crankcase machine screws down to size.  I used blued 4/40 slotted fillister heads as I like their appearance.  From what I have seen these came with socket/Phillips heads too.  

I have been looking at Top Flights Flight Streak, vintage kit appeals to me.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-FLIGHT-FLIGHT-STREAK-CONTROL-LINE-BALSA-MODEL-AIRPLANE-KIT-/111670989995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a001c14ab

But I like the Ringmaster/Magician kits too.  I love the Noblers but at this stage they might be to much for me, besides they always seem to be out of stock.  Other considerations - Sig's Skyray/Banshee.  

That looks nice Smile Try using some glass bead medium for sandblasting , it will give you a nice satin look on the case, the engines on my avatar were glass beaded. ask the seller if they have a glass bead thats even finer than the one listed, if not, the one  listed below will be fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANDBLASTING-SANDBLAST-CABINET-MEDIA-8-GLASSBEADS-25LB-/321760980440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aea72edd8

[img]McCoy "Red heads"    - Page 2 Engine10[/img]
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Post  gcb Fri May 22, 2015 10:31 pm

@CHELLIE wrote:
...I have been looking at Top Flights Flight Streak, vintage kit appeals to me...  
 
Top Flite made a few changes to the Flite Streak for production purposes. The Brodak version follows the original construction method used by and approved by George Aldrich, the designer. George also created the Lightnin' Streak that is also produced by Brodak.
Additionally, the Top Flite version has only an isometric view to build by. The Brodak version includes full size plans (which I believe you can buy separately).
Your choice but I would leave the Top Flite one for kit collectors.

George
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Post  getback Sat May 23, 2015 8:07 am

Status: Currently building a .35 powered Nieuport 28 wrote:
What about this now that you have two or has this been aborted ???
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