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"Spook" can it be done?

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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  WingingIt74 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:54 pm

That sounds cool... can't wait to see one redone Smile

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re: balsa version of Cox Spook

Post  happydad on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:35 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:That sounds cool... can't wait to see one redone Smile

All: Ron Cribbs and I have been discussing the balsa version of the plastic Cox Spook for several months. I have completed the short version, 15inch, wing and started to build up the fuselage. here are a couple of pics.

early wing layout.


wing layout with bellcrank details.


I have installed the bellcrank and leadout wires and covered the wing with sheet balsa. will post pics when i find them. happydad Small Cox Logo
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:14 pm

looks good, are you using liteply?
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:22 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:looks good, are you using liteply?

Hope not, it needs more tail weight. The balsa version will build nose heavy due to the elongated nose.

Hey Mark, do you own a real one? I need some info concerning how the gear mounts and the fuse goes together.

Ron
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:21 pm

no, wish i did, i had one years ago, but flip it on eBay :^ (...

Did you see photos posted on my site, that may help?
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:29 pm

i just looked, nothing really good and i don't really remember, i guess the easiest would be a single wheel gear, mounted between the backplate and firewall or to save nose weight moved aft, but not as simple to mount.
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:30 pm

Ahhh, the one that got away.

I have seen the pics. I will re-engage and look them over again.

Ron
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:38 pm

"light bulb" i'll email a collector buddy who i think has one and see if he'll snap a pic!
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:40 pm

Mark,

That would be great! Thank You.

Ron
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re: pics

Post  happydad on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:20 am

Mark Boesen wrote:"light bulb" i'll email a collector buddy who i think has one and see if he'll snap a pic!

Mark: if you do ask for pics any pics are welcome, but the fuselage top and bottom "inside look" would help greatly. i do not plan to secure the top and bottom pieces the same way i just need to see structural reinforcement and landing gear mount area.
and the plan is to use balsa mostly. basswood for the bellcrank mount and landing gear mount and thin, 1/64in. or 1/32in. ply doublers in the engine mount to 1/2 wing area. i'll show pics later. happydad Small Cox Logo
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re: noseheavy??

Post  happydad on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:28 am

cribbs74 wrote:
Mark Boesen wrote:looks good, are you using liteply?

Hope not, it needs more tail weight. The balsa version will build nose heavy due to the elongated nose.

Hey Mark, do you own a real one? I need some info concerning how the gear mounts and the fuse goes together.

Ron

Ron: my thought on the CG balance was to decide on a type of elevator assembly, solid or with lightening holes, and type of engine, Babe Bee, or Golden Bee, or other, THEN shorten or lengthen the nose a bit to make the CG correct. also heavy landing gear may come into play. i'm thinking with the current weight of the 15inch "balsa spook" that it may take a .049 engine to pull the 5 1/2 to 6oz. weight around. it may be too heavy for the .020 originally thought about.
does anyone have any idea what a pee wee .020 engine will carry in weight? i was thinking of 4 - 5oz. , but after sheeting the wing for strength the current 15in. spook weight is over 4oz. without the engine and covering.
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re: balsa Spook update

Post  happydad on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:17 pm

I finally had a little time to start adding the fuselage to the .020 size balsa Spook wing. enclosed is a pic of the balsa-ply doubler fuselage added to one side of the wing.
Ron C. and I have been kicking around ideas of the engine tank area and I am open to any ideas. currently I plan to make a enclosed tank area with an engine mount for a "bee" type engine. mainly since this smaller version was made for a .020 pee wee size engine.

one side of fuselage balsa/ply doubler attached to wing.



any questions or comments are appreciated. happydad Small Cox Logo
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  RknRusty on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:14 pm

With a 5/32" nose I think the built-up Bee type mount is the best and strongest idea. I'd suggest make the mount as short as possible and build a 3/8oz wedge tank into the wing right behind it... do they have tankless backplates for peewees and Tee Dee .020s?

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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:39 pm

RknRusty wrote:With a 5/32" nose I think the built-up Bee type mount is the best and strongest idea. I'd suggest make the mount as short as possible and build a 3/8oz wedge tank into the wing right behind it... do they have tankless backplates for peewees and Tee Dee .020s?

Yes, I have both.

I believe a Pee Wee/TD .020 will pull the plane at 5-6oz. Especially the TD .020. The problem will be weight. Any tanked reedie will make the plane waaaaay nose heavy. Maybe if you sink the firewall way back it might work.

Ron
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re: .020 pee wee spook update

Post  happydad on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:44 pm

cribbs74 wrote:
RknRusty wrote:With a 5/32" nose I think the built-up Bee type mount is the best and strongest idea. I'd suggest make the mount as short as possible and build a 3/8oz wedge tank into the wing right behind it... do they have tankless backplates for peewees and Tee Dee .020s?

Yes, I have both.

I believe a Pee Wee/TD .020 will pull the plane at 5-6oz. Especially the TD .020. The problem will be weight. Any tanked reedie will make the plane waaaaay nose heavy. Maybe if you sink the firewall way back it might work.

Ron

Ron: my plan is to start the fuselage/CG for a pee wee .020 and then send pics to CEF and Ron and ask for advice. cutting length is a lot easier than adding length.
Rusty: my first idea is to make a place for a tank, but make an engine mount for a bee type engine. at this point Ron C. is the only one I am aware of who "may" be building a .049 version of the balsa Spook. I am still deciding what type of hatch cover to use for the tank compartment. a screw type or the simple type i have used on gliders with a semi-flexible long cover attached at both ends with a small lip under the fuselage proper. pics later when i come up with something concrete.

a quick pic of elevator construction.


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re: spook additions - elevator assembly

Post  happydad on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:25 pm

to build the elevator assembly i used a piece of 1inch x 1/4inch balsa trailing edge stock approximately the distance between the twin rudders, 7 1/4inch and a piece of 1/4in. x 1/4in. balsa stock. after making a groove in both pieces of balsa approximately 1/32inch deep i bent 2 - pieces of 1/16inch piano wire as shown, 3inchs long with 1/2inch on the bend. then i drilled 2 1/16in. diameter holes approximately 1/2inch deep into the TE stock 2 inchs from each end of the TE 1/4inch side.






waiting for glue to dry
after sanding the piano wire for better adhesion i put epoxy into the holes drilled into the TE stock and on the 1/4in. x 1/4in. stock and put the 2 pieces together with rubber bands and clamps to hold the pieces as straight as possible.

glued assembly


after the glue hardens sand and shape the elevator assembly as needed.

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re: more spook build comments

Post  happydad on Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:09 pm

after i added the 2nd fuselage balsa-ply doubler i applied 2 separate coats of white or elmers glue to inside and outside joints with the wing. after the white glue had dried 2 - 3 days i applied a liberal coat of 2 - part 5 minute epoxy to the inside fuselage-wing joints ONLY. this area would be covered eventually so i wanted to be sure it was structurally strong. after the epoxy was hardened i applied 2 coats of top flite lustre kote clear fuel proof paint. the area over the wing would be enclosed and sealed most likely and i wanted it to be fuel proof. the area where the engine was to be mounted was coated with 2 coats of kustre kote clear as well. NOTE: use masking tape in the areas where glue will be used later, like the top of the fuselage, engine mount area and landing gear support. enclosed are pics.

fuselage doubler balsa-ply



2nd fuselage doubler pinned in place and glued.



after applying epoxy to fuselage doubler-wing joints


after 2 coats lustre kote clear on inside


that's all for now. happydad Small Cox Logo
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:20 pm

Looking good!

I can't wait to see how it all turns out. Are you going to be using balsa to sheet the top and bottom of the fuse?

Ron
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  RknRusty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:25 pm

Y'all are inspiring me to rekindle my balsa Hybrid Hyper Viper project. It's still languishing on the drawing board behind several must-do projects. Maybe by this time next year I can get it going. It'll be a large 1/2A sized plane. Maybe for a tee Dee .09. Good luck with the Spooks.

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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:28 pm

Hey!

Keep your eye on the goal. Say it three times Yak.....Yak......Yak. lol!

Just kidding of course. I am the king of distraction

Ron
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re: spook fuselage sheeting

Post  happydad on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:40 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Looking good!

I can't wait to see how it all turns out. Are you going to be using balsa to sheet the top and bottom of the fuse?

Ron

Ron: yes, I started sheeting the fuselage last night. i need info on what size to make the enclosed tank area. i will put a bulkhead in front of the wing and seal and fuel proof the entire area. do you have any ideas on tank size for a .020-.049 fuel tank?? next will be the engine mount and CG. happydad Small Cox Logo
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re: more on spook build

Post  happydad on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:21 pm

Ron: here is the beginning of the fuselage sheeting. i was going to put a bulkhead about at the wing LE as shown and seal an area for a fuel tank and mount the engine on the very end of the fuselage. so i need a little help. what will the .020 weigh? my pee wee .020 weighs about .8oz. with small tank. how large is the external fuel tank if used? approximately what will it weigh empty?

balsa .020 Spook with fuselage partially sheeted.


more later.
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:43 am

What is the dimensions of the tank area? I may have a tank that will work. I noticed the firewall is very forward. This may work on the .020. But if you go .049 it will be very nose heavy. Looking at the plans the only part of the engine exposed is from the cylinder forward.

My concern over the nose heaviness is that it will be very hard to correct without adding a lot of weight.

If you use a hard tank then you could probably get away with just gluing on the top sheeting.

I think a .020 would be more correct for this plane and the weight may be just right.

Ron
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  pkrankow on Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:47 am

Balsa is lighter than the plastic so the nose extension might have been necessary in the original to balance the ribs and elevator. Be prepared to shorten the nose if you can't get CG to work out.

Phil
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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

Post  RknRusty on Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:02 pm

I always try to get the engine as close to the lead edge as possible. It's only important if you want it to turn loops without using the whole sky.

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Re: "Spook" can it be done?

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